Sandy Shore

Jun 8 2017, 08:16 PM

If anyone is tempted to slap me with the ever useless platitude that it is "not all Muslims", or anything remotely resembling it, do note that I never once said it was, but also note that it has been suggested that considerably more than half of British Muslims would not report Muslim extremism. Not all of them, but a lot more than half would appear to, at the very least, seemingly have no regard for the attacks on the country they're being supported in, and the barbaric killings of its innocent civilians in the name of their religion, if not outright, clandestine support of it.

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The survey was conducted on a random sample of 1,081 British Muslims aged 18 and over.

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Not surprising when you consider the consistent reluctance of many to condemn such attacks, even when asked, and the polls that suggest sympathy for the murderers, among other troubling things.

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The response, however, should not be to psychotically endanger the peoples of Europe or elsewhere because you feel a little sad at the thought of impeding their desire to live in a more charitable and tolerant country that many of them have absolutely no allegiance to nor feel they owe any thanks, or whose ways they simply abhor. Not all, but many.

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Contrary to what nutcases believe, Europe doesn't owe all the down-trodden of the world a good home, and it certainly shouldn't be sacrificing the blood of its own innocent people to that end just because you and others feel better doing so.

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If a certain group of people (of European descent) had a history of ongoing child abuse, and they asked a thousand random people from that community whether they would report it should they know it was going on, but two-out-of-three of those asked said they wouldn't, you would be with them in screaming bloody murder. You would be slamming your head on the keyboard in frothing outrage.

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They'll adjust and change (for the better) based on what, exactly? Not their views on homosexuality, obviously, since more than half of them think homosexuality should be illegal. With, I believe, about a quarter of them thinking that it should be punishable by death.

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43% of British Muslims want Sharia Law. Only 22% were against it. That's a massive majority, and with the remaining 35% of those asked seemingly open to the idea...

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You completely disregarded an unbiased statistic and expressed interest in a statistic that you think would somehow make these views acceptable and benign...

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27% of British Muslims expressed sympathy with the Charlie Hebdo murderers

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Still, that's the reason given, and they're evidently the kind of people that are motivated to defend their religion by outright lying about it. That's problematic.

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They're not making a difference in what? They clearly are making a difference - a difference in the number of dead infidel children in the name of their god and religion.

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You think their objective is to get a rise out of people and have them say "curse those Muslims"? Which pumps them all up for another round? When have any of them ever uttered such an asinine thing? This is the claims and delusions of politicians and apologists alone. Of which you are one. Weed out one terrorist that has ever claimed they motivated to try and "make a difference" in the amount of people that go to concerts or whatever nonsense it is that you're spouting.

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Doing so at the expense of others, to the point it becomes a numbers game (helping enrich and support more lives than the terrorists and rapists destroy), is completely devoid of compassion. It's the pursuit of an ideology; the sacrificing of the few(er) for the sake of the many (more).
That's your position entirely, whether you realise it or not. I find it absolutely reprehensible.

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There are ways of trying to help them that don't endanger uninvolved, non-consensual civilians that neither caused the problems these other people face nor owe a solution to them. Ways of helping that don't create ghettos of violence and abuse that resemble the countries these people have been coming from. That being a different discussion that you'll never move on to, anyway.

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the reality is that they're not all that's coming in. But, I know, you care more about the feels-goods than the death and abuse of civilians that wouldn't have had to suffer otherwise. Evidently.

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but even then there is still a fundamental difference when considering which of them "contributes" or "drains" if that's the game you're trying to play.

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While they may be finding acceptable employment, getting them initially sheltered and fed costs money; travel, phones and internet access et cetera so they might become employed costs money; medical care costs money

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Even if a native born is on benefits, the chances are very high that someone has been paying a portion of their share right up until they left school, and probably more.

Not to mention who's on benefits and who's simply unemployed. Plenty of native borns could reasonably be entirely funded by their parents, who might themselves be relatively well off. The vast, vast majority of unemployed coming in from the third world almost absolutely do not have other people paying their way in any way.

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Furthermore, the community in this discussion that we're exclusively focusing on are far and away under performing compared to other immigrants according to the statistic cited by this Muslim man. I'd like to see you try to put a good spin on that, even for their own sake.

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In-fact, eight-out-of-ten European countries that were polled said they did not want any more immigration from Muslim majority countries, with only an average 20% of those asked finding it within themselves to disagree with the statement compared to a 55% majority, so they're actually being taken in against many populace's desires to do so.

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and it certainly doesn't mean the best solution is to keep taking them in en masse and adding to the very evident problems that already exist in the countries they're going to

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The lives they destroy before it ever gets to that point... Seriously? Did you not even watch the video I sent where Maajid discusses how deep an issue this is?

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Our liberal values typically don't include the hatred of, imprisonment of, or execution of people based on their sexuality. Pointing out that there's still something of a "fight" about this in our liberal countries makes it doubly nonsensical to keep increasing the numbers of people from a background where they typically have very intolerant, incompatible views about these things - triple if you consider a not insignificant number of them wish to have their own laws to govern themselves!

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And that wasn't even the point... I pointed out that statistic when you baselessly (as virtually everything you say has been) claimed that their views change (for the better) when they come to live in our countries. Based on what?

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What do you mean unless I can show otherwise? I've been showing you plenty of things that demonstrate very clearly how bad it already appears in the UK, how poorly these particular people appear to integrate, despite your claims that living here will make them all great, and it's perfectly clear that adding to that community with large numbers of people from places where their views are even worse could only exacerbate the issue, let alone prevent it from improving.

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You are an ideologue. Plain and simple. In every single debate you engage, you take the position of an unsubstantiated ideologue.

No amount of demonstrating this will ever make you see.

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The problem and fact is that there are people hell-bent on killing as many innocent civilians as they can in the name of their religion, abusing them because of their particular views, and the response is people saying nonsense like: "we may never know what drives someone to commit such an atrocity", when we clearly do. The problem is, instead of people saying that something should be addressed, and their governments actually doing something about it whenever they do, the response is to get together for a little sing-song and change profile pictures, while talking about how lovely a religion Islam is and how little it has to do with any of it.